Linked via … someone to a very interesting article by Dita de Boni on the 24-week limit in Steve Chadwick’s proposed bill.
Like a few commenters, I think the 24-week limit is an issue likely to derail the abortion argument into a finicky negotiation about “when life begins” and “when the Baby (TM) feels pain” and frankly it’s an irrelevant distraction from the fact that women in New Zealand should not have to plead their case when making decisions about their own body.
But the Herald, bless their hearts, have allowed comments on de Boni’s article. And antichoicers are not a group known for their restraint, nor originality. Dear readers, if you wish to know the mind of our opposition, look verily unto the comments section, and feel the power of the dark side.
carlo of Waitakere City is first in the with slut-shaming:
My view is if you don’t want the baby, don’t fall pregnant.
carlo’s pseudonym implies zie won’t ever be in a position to fall pregnant under any circumstances, but let’s be honest; it’s hardly a uniquely male thing to pretend that human fertility is a completely controllable, predictable phenomenon – and that’s before we cover those pesky things like sexual assault and social pressure to put out under a variety of “proper” circumstances.
But wait, I forgot: You Should Have Kept Your Legs Shut, Filthy Women.
carlo then indulges in some hilarious mathematics:
One according to Statistics NZ 17550 abortions were performed in 2009 in NZ that work out to 48 per day or two per hour and at around (I estimate ) $1000.00 per surgical procedure to a lot of money.
… which nicely covers off the Evil Medical Pyramid Scheme box. Let me tell you, internet, I would dearly love to know the basis of carlo’s “estimate”.
Roger Driver-Burgess will not be outdone, however, and goes straight into some mansplainish Deep Rhetorical Questioning:
Do we only value life that is completely independent? We maintain adults on life-support machinery until they die, why do we insist that babies must be able to live independently before we accord them human dignity?
Because we all know that Women are Just Incubators. And of course turning off life support isn’t the subject of huge debate and never happens.
No other group of human beings has the right to live off the bodily resources of another. Boy, I sure hope no one making this argument has ever ranted about giving gay people “special rights”, that would be, like, hypocritical.
Anne is also from Waitakere, and she would like to raise the critical Real Women Want Babies issue:
But I wonder if those who are able to coldly state “abortion should be more readily available” actually have children of their own or if they have imagined missing out on the years of enjoyment and depth of relationship had they aborted that much loved child.
Because no one has an abortion and goes on to have children when it becomes emotionally/financially/otherwisely viable. And no one has children and goes on to have an abortion because it’s no longer emotionally/financially/physically/otherwisely viable. And no one becomes pregnant deliberately but chooses to abort because of medical complications. And no one chooses to adopt rather than have children for physical/psychological/environmental reasons. And certainly all prochoicers must be child-hating spinsters, and certainly I do not actually want to have children in a few years’ time.
My partner is going to think I’ve been kidnapped by pod people again.
Don’t you just love the phrase, “aborted that much-loved child”, though? Anne, if someone loves their unborn child (TM), and has had, for whatever reason, aborted that pregnancy? You probably don’t need to get on your fucking soapbox and tell them what they’re missing out on, they probably fucking know already because it was probably one of the hardest fucking decisions they ever made. But hey, don’t let actual empathy get in the way of a good self-righteous wank.
Anne would also like us to Think of the Superiority of DNA and Biological Relationships and also, Haha I Called You A Pro-Abortionist, SICK BURN:
Abortion is not just a “get rid of it now” concept, it’s taking a life – 70+ years worth – along with an entire family line.
Why do I get the sneaking suspicion that Anne wouldn’t be quite so passionate about those lives not guaranteed to live to 70+ and continue the family line?
Before the pro-abortionists rise up and scald me, isn’t there still a demand for adopted children by those who would dearly love to nurture that which others are unable to?
See, there’s a demand for (healthy able-bodied white probably female) babies, and you pregnant women can provide the supply, and now all we need to do is set a price and voila, capitalism in action. Pregnant women: they’re just like [canine] bitches, pedigree is everything when you’re flogging the pups.
Truly Kiwi knocks off two of my favourites:
If however they wait until 6 months into a 9 month pregnancy and then choose to terminate I would be asking the question of what took you so long to decide and maybe it should come down to at this late stage you could possibly think about adoption instead after all you only have 3 more months to carry.
1. Women are Just Stupid. I mean seriously, what took you so long? Didn’t you, like, get the You’re Pregnant memo? And talk about flighty, these women, just going along LA LA LA LA NOT A CARE IN THE WORLD and suddenly OH NO I WON’T FIT MY PROM DRESS and then it’s a pre-ball season slaughter of the unborn.
2. It’s Only 9 Months, What Are You Complaining About? Pregnancy, you see, is a magic ritual, it only requires the arcane combination of sperm and egg plus a period of time and BOOM precious new life is born. There’s certainly no strain on the pregnant person’s body, and it certainly doesn’t affect your life of luxury and bonbon-eating by the pool, and it definitely, definitely could not be in any way distressing or psychologically harmful to be forced to undergo having an unwanted creature inhabiting your body.
Dear antichoicers: go get yourself a fucking tapeworm already and sit down to a marathon of the Aliens quadrilogy and then whinge to me about “it’s no big deal, just wait X months”.
Dilla wants to reprise the just-use-a-condom-you-stupid-cow argument, with a wonderful oblivious twist:
Speaking from gen Y, my peers take abortion way too lightly – if it wasn’t an option I bet they’d be much more careful.
Yes Dilla. They would be. And some of them would still get pregnant and would still try to end their pregnancies and would end up bleeding to death on hotel room floors. Fuck you.
Peter T breaks out Where Do We Draw the Line? … literally.
So where do we draw the line where mind begins- and does it matter if the object was destroyed while anaesthetised?
We draw the line when being A isn’t using being B’s blood to carry oxygen. See? That wasn’t so hard.
Let’s round it all off with Graham of Howick:
But in many instances I think it is just a convenience.
It’s just a convenience. Much like, oh, to pick a random example, Viagra. Weirdly, you see, it’s not actually necessary for men to continue having erections throughout their lives, and it’s not actually a human right to get boners when you’re 70.
But no one seems to have a single fucking problem with tampering with biology, with fucking around with hormones, with Changing God’s Plan For You, with the “natural” processes of cock-failure, with Viagra etc just being a convenience that men should just suck it up and go without because well that’s just the consequences of being an old dude.
I mean, I realise that some guys may need to have boner-pills, but I just don’t see how society can allow this many cocks to be inflated just out of convenience.
And that’s page one of the comments. I now require tea and biscuits and a wee lie-down.
We have seen the enemy, friends. And he hates women and wants to enslave them through biology. And we are not going to fucking let him.